In this conversation from the Ricci Institute at Boston College, Fr. Rob Carbonneau, CP, and Fr. Paul Francis Spencer, CP, explore the Passionist China Collection, an extraordinary archive documenting the lives, struggles and deep cultural encounters of Passionist missionaries in China from the early 20th century.
More than just historical records, these diaries, letters, and artifacts reveal something deeper: a lived relationship between cultures, a commitment to service in times of war and hardship, and a lasting love for the Chinese people.
What we often don’t think about is how religion and society are intersected. Many times we think religion is difficult to understand, but people who live religion in a way that is for humanity, bringing solace and, at times, healing.
Fr. Rob Carbonneau, CP
From firsthand accounts of wartime life to reflections on mission and reconciliation, this video offers a rare and moving glimpse into history as it was truly lived—through the eyes of those who were there.
Watch and discover how the past continues to speak into our world today.
This transcript has been prepared for clarity, accessibility, searchability and readability, though minor variations from the original video may occur.
Introduction
Carbonneau:
Today is March 20th, 2026. And my name is Father Rob Carbonneau. I’m an archival specialist fellow at the Ricci Institute for Chinese Western Cultural History here at Boston College. And we’re very pleased to be showing some of the material from the Passionist China collection here at the Ricci Institute. And I’m with a colleague of mine. I’ll have him introduce himself, a fellow Passionist. Please introduce yourself and why you’re here.
Introducing Father Paul Francis Spencer
Spencer:
Okay. Well, I’m Father Paul Francis Spencer and I live in Rome in the General House at St. John and Paul. I’m what they call the First General Consultor. So I’m a member of the General Council, and as well as having a geographical region, my area of responsibility is charism, spirituality, and history. And so I am the reference person on the council for archives and historical records. So I’m very happy to be here.
Carbonneau:
So this is the first time, Father Paul Francis, that you’ve ever been to the Ricci Institute, and it’s the first time that you’ve seen the Passionist China collection. We saw some of the collection upstairs. Why don’t you tell us, from your point of view, what’s the importance of the Passionist China collection just in our congregation history on China as you understand it and as we understand it worldwide as Passionists?
The Missionary Significance of China
Spencer:
Well, the presence of the Passionists in China, you could say, was the first overseas missionary presence in the congregation. So we had a presence in Bulgaria from the 1780s, but the movement into China from the United States Province was the first time a province actually moved into a new country in a missionary sense. So it’s the beginning of what we understand today as missionary evangelization, missionary presence in our congregation.
Carbonneau:
Now you grew up in—you’re from Scotland originally, correct? And so as you were a young Passionist, you heard about these missionaries in China. What would be three qualities or three attributes that you heard about what the China mission meant just for Passionists in general? And thinking about that, what does it mean to actually see now the collection for the first time, part of it?
Memories of Missionaries
Spencer:
I thought I was going to be interviewing you. So okay, but I’ll do my best. I was fascinated by this box here in the center because this is about Father Justin Garvey. [Yes.] Who was one of the Passionists who was there at the time when missionaries were being imprisoned, and he was imprisoned, I think, from the beginning of that period until he was released around 1955.
Carbonneau:
Correct.
Spencer:
Now, I had the privilege of meeting Father Justin Garvey 30 years ago when he was living in Jamaica, New York, at the end of his life. And he was already a hero because I’d heard stories about these men. Father Marcellus, Father Ernest was another one that I met, and Father Justin, who had come through prison, who had come through terribly harsh conditions, and who had been able to maintain that love for China, which was such a significant part of their lives.
And I gave a retreat in Jamaica to the community at that time, around 1995. And in the library during the free time in the afternoon, I went into the library in Jamaica. And there, at a table like this, was Father Justin. And he was sitting writing a scroll in Chinese calligraphy, a man who must have been nearly 90 years of age at that time. But you could see the living connection with China, which had been so much a part of his life and ministry.
Carbonneau:
So you said you were going to ask me some questions. So why don’t you?
Encountering the Collection
Spencer:
Well, yes, because you know this collection very well. Now I know about it. I know something about China. I work with the general archivist also in Rome, where we have received copies of all these documents, because part of the work which has happened here at the Ricci Institute is that you have made digital versions of all the material, and we now have that in Rome. But for me, it’s a privilege to see the original documents.
So tell me, for you who know the collection so well, what you’ve selected from hundreds of boxes upstairs—you’ve selected four. So explain to me the significance of these four.
The Shanahan Diary
Carbonneau:
Well, I would say the first thing that has been most prominent to me for the Passionist China collection, and it’s probably the most valuable aspect of the Passionist China collection, is this diary of Father Cormac Shanahan. And just before he died, probably in the early 80s, I was visiting him, and as I was visiting him, he handed me this old passport.
And this old passport was a passport he had when he visited Mao Zedong in 1944 in Yan’an, China. And he kept the notes of his visit because he was part of what they call the China Press party. He went from Chongqing, the World War II capital, and he went there to find out the conditions of the Communist Party in Yan’an, and he also tried to find out about the Catholics.
And he gave me this diary in a plastic bag, and I said, “What is this?” And he says, “Well, this is the diary I kept when I went to visit Mao Zedong.” And I was probably a little over 30 years old, and I said, “What do you want me to do with this?” And he says, “You will know what to do with this. You’re the only person who will know what to do with it,” because I was starting to study China.
And so I kept it all these years, and since then I’ve been able to understand it. But this is valuable because this is what the Passionist China collection represents.
A Passport of Understanding
Carbonneau:
As you stated, Father Paul Francis, this is about a mission experience and an evangelization experience. But what most people don’t understand about the Passionist China collection and mission collections in general is they talk about the actual story of the life and culture of the people in which they serve.
So this is a China collection about missionaries, yes, from the United States and other parts of the world who worked in China from 1921 to 1955. But this is really also about a love for the Chinese culture and the sufferings of the Chinese culture, and that’s an important aspect to have.
So this passport is an important document for American history, diplomatic history of the Holy See, history for US relations and Chinese relations, and it talks about a reality that is still important to learn from today.
So this diary really holds literally a passport of understanding. It’s a passport of understanding, and we have different ways we want to understand it. Do we want to use this information to keep us fractured in the world, or do we want to see this as a point of reconciliation?
And as you were talking about Father Justin Garvey and Father Marcellus White and Father Ernest Hoes, they were men who I learned from who look at these missionary collections as a collection to help us understand the world and reconciliation.
And that’s why this collection is a perfect home at the Ricci Institute, because Matteo Ricci was a person who bridged friendship and understanding as well. So that’s what this first collection box is about. And really, at times I still get very emotional when I open it up and see it.
Wartime Diaries and Daily Life
Carbonneau:
This last box that I took down is something that in all the years I’ve been studying China, I’ve never had a chance really to investigate. Father William Westhoven was in Xijiang, China, in West Hunan, which was the home of the Flying Tigers, Claire Chennault’s Flying Tigers. And he kept a diary in the 30s and into the 40s. This is a 1940 diary, I believe.
And it’s a day-to-day diary, and it talks about what is going on there. It’s material that simply records what’s happening each day. He writes that the bomb shattered the priest’s house, and it was hit today. A crew of 20 wreckers came—how they enjoyed it. There was a bomb, and they had to destroy and level the house that had been shattered. The debris was carried away for $40 US, which was about 600 Chinese dollars.
So he’s talking about day-to-day activity under wartime conditions. He’s also talking about different situations. The day before, he says a 63-year-old Catholic widow begged to stay in the mission so she could hear Mass and go to communion during All Souls Day. So you see the devotion of the local Chinese Catholics.
He also mentions military leaders who come through the area, nationalist leaders, and sometimes communists and their issues there, because this was a very contentious area. So this is really a dissertation waiting for someone to write.
Humanity and the Meaning of History
Carbonneau:
I think what these boxes represent is the humanity of the Passionists, the sufferings that they endured, but also the love that they had for the Chinese people themselves—and the Chinese people really loved them.
So this is a document on Chinese history, Catholic history, and world history, but mostly it’s about the compassion of people and respect for people. And that’s what history is about. That’s what the Ricci Institute is about.
And the Passionists are very honored to have our Passionist China collection here at the Ricci Institute, because it’s a 20th-century collection. We’re very honored to have you here to get an idea of the breadth and depth of this collection.
So that’s a quick summary of these boxes and the material that’s in them, and anyone can make an appointment to look at this information.
Spencer:
And maybe just a last word: when you pick up a book on history about China or anywhere, it’s usually written about famous people—politicians, generals, and so on. But this is the history of ordinary people and daily life. And so it brings a whole deeper dimension to understanding a people and its culture and how it has lived.
Faith, Society, and Mission Today
Carbonneau:
Yes, and I think for me, a lot of those politicians—for example, we have a great photo of Cormac Shanahan with Mao Zedong, and we have a great photo of Bishop O’Gara with Chiang Kai-shek. We also have local people, and many people across the world know Catholic missionaries or Protestant missionaries.
What we often don’t think about is how religion and society are intersected. Many times we think religion is difficult to understand, but people who live religion in a way that is for humanity, bringing solace and, at times, healing.
And the Passionists specifically try to understand those who are suffering. So we dealt in China, and I think we still do all over the world, with people of any stature of life. We always welcome people in leadership or the common person, and if we can be of service to them, that is what Jesus would do, and that is our mission even today.
So thank you very much for coming here.
Spencer:
Thank you for letting me see this.
